Tuesday, June 07, 2005
3. Invading Iraq to Avenge 9/11
Possible Undeclared Motives for the Invasion of Iraq
We now know that such sentiment existed and still exists in the US.
As already discussed, the main thrust of the drive following 9/11 was the war on world terrorism and, to some extent, Islamic fundamentalism. Despite all claims and half-baked affirmations, neither was present in significant force in Iraq either after 9/11 or immediately before the invasion.
We know now that the tragic events of 9/11 were effectively employed to manipulate American public opinion to support the invasion of Iraq. 9/11 is an important parameter only within this context. It created a mood that made large segments of the US public susceptible to that manipulation!
Americans who held or still hold this sentiment of Iraq being somehow linked to 9/11 have therefore been wickedly manipulated by people or powers with the sole purpose of promoting their agenda. The basis for that manipulation was bigotry and ignorance as well as primitive raw revenge instincts of simple people: The perpetrators of 9/11 were Arab and Muslim; Iraq was mostly Arab and Muslim. That was the simple venomous argument insinuated (not officially I should add)! This is why I have described those manipulators as wicked.
[On the other hand, soon after the invasion, Iraq was declared by President Bush himself to have become a front in the war against terrorism… and indeed it was. It is now, and likely to remain so for a long time to come. This is indeed an epitome of wickedness. As an Iraqi I find it outrageous for terrorists to be lured (and they were literally lured) into my country so that the American army can fight it out with those people in our cities with thousands of innocent Iraqis killed in the process. Those innocent people are being killed by the dozen every day NOW… but that is another story. Another casualty of this ploy was the nationalistic resistance – people fighting to resist what they genuinely believe to be the American occupation of their country. There was no serious attempt to bring those people into the fold of the political process. They were all lumped by US officialdom, most of the mass media and the propaganda machines together with those terrorists. They no longer exist in most people’s minds!]
In any case, the motive for the invasion as a component in the fight against world terrorism was already discussed with the other ‘declared motives’ and was found almost groundless. More significantly, those promoting it knew that it was a “thin case” as manifested by the “Downing Street Memo” discussed earlier.
Even then, why was Iraq chosen for this purpose even before the rise of international terrorism? But back to the undeclared motives for the invasion of Iraq; the facts are straightforward:
Crude vengeance cannot be an objective for governments or part of a strategic vision. Therefore it seems obvious to me that revenge for 9/11 could not have been a major factor in the invasion itself (not for strategic planners) but it was intentionally employed to secure public support for that invasion and for its undeclared agenda.
We now know that such sentiment existed and still exists in the US.
As already discussed, the main thrust of the drive following 9/11 was the war on world terrorism and, to some extent, Islamic fundamentalism. Despite all claims and half-baked affirmations, neither was present in significant force in Iraq either after 9/11 or immediately before the invasion.
We know now that the tragic events of 9/11 were effectively employed to manipulate American public opinion to support the invasion of Iraq. 9/11 is an important parameter only within this context. It created a mood that made large segments of the US public susceptible to that manipulation!
Americans who held or still hold this sentiment of Iraq being somehow linked to 9/11 have therefore been wickedly manipulated by people or powers with the sole purpose of promoting their agenda. The basis for that manipulation was bigotry and ignorance as well as primitive raw revenge instincts of simple people: The perpetrators of 9/11 were Arab and Muslim; Iraq was mostly Arab and Muslim. That was the simple venomous argument insinuated (not officially I should add)! This is why I have described those manipulators as wicked.
[On the other hand, soon after the invasion, Iraq was declared by President Bush himself to have become a front in the war against terrorism… and indeed it was. It is now, and likely to remain so for a long time to come. This is indeed an epitome of wickedness. As an Iraqi I find it outrageous for terrorists to be lured (and they were literally lured) into my country so that the American army can fight it out with those people in our cities with thousands of innocent Iraqis killed in the process. Those innocent people are being killed by the dozen every day NOW… but that is another story. Another casualty of this ploy was the nationalistic resistance – people fighting to resist what they genuinely believe to be the American occupation of their country. There was no serious attempt to bring those people into the fold of the political process. They were all lumped by US officialdom, most of the mass media and the propaganda machines together with those terrorists. They no longer exist in most people’s minds!]
In any case, the motive for the invasion as a component in the fight against world terrorism was already discussed with the other ‘declared motives’ and was found almost groundless. More significantly, those promoting it knew that it was a “thin case” as manifested by the “Downing Street Memo” discussed earlier.
Even then, why was Iraq chosen for this purpose even before the rise of international terrorism? But back to the undeclared motives for the invasion of Iraq; the facts are straightforward:
Crude vengeance cannot be an objective for governments or part of a strategic vision. Therefore it seems obvious to me that revenge for 9/11 could not have been a major factor in the invasion itself (not for strategic planners) but it was intentionally employed to secure public support for that invasion and for its undeclared agenda.
# posted by Abu Khaleel @ 4:52 PM 
Comments:
"Therefore it seems obvious to me that revenge for 9/11 could not have been a major factor in the invasion itself (not for strategic planners) but it was intentionally employed to secure public support for that invasion and for its undeclared agenda."
I have a short disscusion of this issue here.
_____________________________________________________________________
Hello Abu Khaleel,
Vengence is not a US cultural norm. Feuding is relegated to comic relief featuring 'hillbillies' and other uncouth rural stereotypes. OTH, this is not a universal characteristic as there are many cultures where it is very important (Arab but also Italian(la vendetta=revenge),etc. Sometimes it doesn't appear that there is even much of a 'vendetta' against Bin Ladin, just a rather an impersonal, 'where'd we go wrong' angst.
(Still revenge emotions are the best thing about Italian operas from Rigolleto to Pagliacci.)
I wonder how many of the 'mistakes' stem from such neo-con 'cultural deafness' who only recognise only their own values as universal.
_____________________________________________________________________
Hello Bruno,
Well, to a point, I have to conceed your objection. As to the movies, there are quite a few revenge-fantasy type films like Dirty Harry, but alot of the anger seems to be against 'misguided' people who try to prevent the hero from uninhibitedly killing the baddies, so 'society' does seem to oppose revenge on principle.
In WW2, Pearl Harbor called for revenge against Japan, so that was clearly a war of revenge. However, I still maintain that the duty of revenge is not a US cultural norm and that motive must be officially concealed or atleast denied.
I guess I was trying to make a point about about a clash of cultures that lead to mistakes(the old topic)rather than undeclared US motives. Somewhere in the mix there is obviously a misplaced desire for revenge, but you will get a wall of denials if you bring it up.
One aspect of revenge is also the personal revenge of Bush(he has this reputation personally) against Saddam for assasination attempts against his father and we have all heard the stories of Bush possessing Saddam's personal firearms. This could have had a pivotal role in the selection of Saddam.
Just I saw Blair on TV and he maintains that his flat-out only reason was because of Saddam's violation of UN resolutions, for what that's worth.
_____________________________________________________________________
May I allow myself a short, off-topic personal rant? (Before anyone objects, I will delete it in a couple of days ;)
I just thought some of the old timers may be interested to know that Abu Hadi has just left a few minutes ago!
Abu Hadi is an expatriate Iraqi whom I had met through this blog. A couple of people wrote wondering where he has disappeared. Actually he came back to Iraq some time ago. Today, he came for a visit and we spent a very pleasant evening here at home with a few other friends (one of them a common acquaintance).
Looking forward to meeting some of the other decent fellows out there sometime!
_____________________________________________________________________
Hello Abu Khaleel,
I know it is pretty much off topic but I just came across this interesting article, which mentions that idiotic phrase 'creative destruction' as applied to the globalized world order the neo-cons worship by an economist I never head of (Lord Desai).
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/globalDimensions/research/globalizationNeitherIdeologyNorUtopia/Default.htm
_____________________________________________________________________
From Circular
Since Abu has allowed himself to go off-topic above, perhaps he will permit me to do the same?
I’m not contributing much to these "motive" discussions basically because I feel I don’t know enough about geo-political realities and US players to say anything intelligent. But I was interested to be redirected from Najma’s blog (astarfrommosul.blogspot.com) to Abu’s latest article in A Glimpse of Iraq about the insurgent called Spark, and his escapades in US prison camps.
Given my background, it naturally reminded me irresistibly of the stories of WW2 British POWs outwitting stupid German guards: I grew up on these. (The abortive tunnel escape at Abu Ghraib was of course another reminder.)
Isn’t this another "undeclared" US motive for this crazy war, and for everything that has happened in Iraq, Abu? Sheer f**king stupidity? An absolutely invincible ability to display ignorance, arrogance, insensitivity and criminality outside their own borders?
(Detaining Nihad’s brother’s for several months, then just letting them go without interrogation, charge, trial, or explanation - what is this saying to the people of their community, except "Duh, we don’t know what we’re doing!")
Along the lines of the old saying about familiarity breeding contempt, a couple more years of the US in Iraq and the funniest joke for Iraqis will probably be just to say "American! Freedom! Democracy! Body Armour!"
What a farce! These confused brutal clowns are going to run the world in the 21st century? Glad I won’t be around to see it!
_____________________________________________________________________
Circular,
Why not! Let’s go off topic to take a break from those depressing issues!
I was beginning to wonder where you were. Following Rugby matches couldn’t be a 24 hour occupation… or is it in NZ?
Talking of escapades, those boys told me of another successful escape tunnel at Bucca. It was hilarious! The floor boards of those ‘caravans’ are made of wood. The soil is mostly sand in that part of the country. Every night, the floors were removed and inmates kept busy digging that tunnel. They chose a zigzag path because the soil was so frail. Nevertheless, they were nearly discovered when outside the fence work on a newly constructed road caused a collapse. The ‘unwitting’ workers just filled up the cavity with concrete and proceeded!!! So the inmates made a detour and completed their tunnel. They said 13 of them managed to escape. 10 were caught in Basra or Um Qasr the next day trying to get on buses… by the Iraqi police. Three made it!!
As to your other remark about jokes, I think I have already mentioned that Freedom and Democracy are regarded as a joke by most Iraqis (actually I wasn’t joking). It is truly sad that they cannot be used in any local political argument (and we have many, every day) by any self-respecting person if he or she want to be taken seriously!
A few days ago, the fellow in our neighborhood who runs our new ‘privatized’ power system was having an argument with some of the neighbors. They said he was not running it enough. (To be fair, the guy was doing his best, but no 20-year old machine could cope with those long hours of power cuts) He replied sharply: “You people are impossible to satisfy. On top of Freedom and Democracy, you want a government, security, water and now… electricity!” they all laughed!
_____________________________________________________________________
Abu Khaleel,
going back to these 'depressing issues', avenging 9/11 was not a motive at all in the invasion of Iraq.
As you stated yourself, while 'avenging 9/11' was one of the declared motives of their so-called 'WOT' or 'War On Terror', the fact that Saddam's Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with it (as the US Govt., and all Govt.s in the world, very well knew from the beginning) removes it as a real motive of any kind, declared or undeclared, for the invasion.
It was, as you say, just the way to manipulate a gullible & very misinformed US public opinion (Muslims + Arabs = 'Islamofascism') in favour of war, regardless of the target of choice. We'll see in some of your next posts whether this 'Islamofascist' bogeyman of opportunity, the 'official' target of their 'WOT', has any reality.
What keeps striking me, though, is the big number of common Americans who still love to delude themselves that there actually WAS a link between Saddam's regime and 9/11. A sizeable number that appears not just in US opinion polls but, more incredibly, up to this very day among pro-war US commentators to most Iraqi blogs (and not just to their favourite, paid-for playground, 'Iraq The Minion').
As anybody may see, this very fact puts a shadow of doubt on the very nature of American 'democracy'. One can understand why wicked politicians and their drum-gang (the Ann Coulters & the mass-media crowd) did insinuate this rather grotesque lie in the minds of 'simple people' then; what is astounding is that so many of them still believe in this Orwellian fabrication, in a way more similar to the European totalitarian regimes of the Thirties than to a 'democracy' of any kind. I say 'totalitarian regimes of the Thirties' because in that age of comparative innocence there was, in Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia, some sizeable part of the population, especially among the young, thoroughly fanaticised, and truly believing any lie spread from the top; while as far as I know in other, later, totalitarian or pseudo-totalitarian regimes, like Saddam's Iraq, the number of blind, gullible, and very very 'simple-minded' people was always much smaller. In the case of Iraq I've heard (please tell us if that's true) that after the tragedy of Saddam's war against Iran such fanatical simpletons became even scarcer, and more difficult to find.
But instead in the greatest 'democracy' there are, it seems, plenty of them.
_____________________________________________________________________
I think a word from the "off topic" in question may be in order here:-)
I am not sure who is responsible for bringing me together with Abu Khaleel. Was it sheer chance, was it blogging? war on terror? either way I am only glad that the Iraqi condition does produces glimpses of happiness. For it was a joy meeting him and his dear wife.. lets say Um Khaleel!
I wont betray AK with a personal description, but I have to report I sat in the very room where he does all of his blogging. The room has a large window view of a well kept garden (for the man is a self confessed farmer) and has all the modcons to keep him going through those power cuts we keep hearing about.
He is right about the old generator across the road.. this machine must have an interesting history to tell.. when it cuts out it makes such a shrieky noise that I am sure must have woken up AK countless times every night.
Before I go back to my own world, I must report that what amazes me most about AK's writings is the coolness and sense of fairness, when life in Baghdad lends itself to neither to put it mildly.
If there are any takers of AK's offer to visit, I do recommend sampling the delights of Um Khaleel's cooking. It really is something else... I am considering weekly meetings now:-)
Abu Off Topic
_____________________________________________________________________
Abu Khaleel
I found this interesting site
doyou have any comment on it's theory??
http://www.altalib.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41
_____________________________________________________________________
Well, now I am getting very interested in your cooking (!) and indeed the stories about 'the old generator across the road..' And I am curious also to an extended exchange of off-topics discourses between AK and AH ;)
(I can't recall when it was the last time that i found so much joy in reading 'commentsection :)
best to you,
-c-
_____________________________________________________________________
Cile,
It was a nice break, wasn’t it? It was truly a fascinating coincidence that I and Abu Hadi are exactly the same age. We went abroad the same year, to the same county in the same country. I really did enjoy that evening.
By the way, that common friend was the same guy I went with to see the gentleman from the UN during the early days of the invasion to advocate the grass roots democracy… and challenged him to say which of us was Sunni and which was Shiite… and he guessed wrong ;)
Back to the ‘depressing issues’…
Observer,
I don’t know! I guess most countries consider a variety of scenarios!!! Such schemes may sound good on paper or encouraging in the minds of people who want them to succeed… but facts on the ground and the reaction of people may sometimes be difficult to predict. That plan had not the slightest chance of succeeding... not in a 1000 years!!
As the poet al Mutanabbi, who I’m quite fond of, said about 1000 years ago:
Not all one wishes one attains…
… Winds may blow not to ships’ desire!
_____________________________________________________________________
To say Invading Iraq to Avenge 9/11 is like to say bombing North Vietnam in '60s for causing the Tonkin bay incident. Apart from the two WTC towers, the event in the Pentagon is much less clear. The fight in Iraq and Afganistan now is about the control of the future of the Middle East, as the fight in Vietnam was about the control of SE Asia. Many commentators emphasize on the difference between Iraq and Vietnam, but forget to mention that America remains the same. It still driven by lobbies of different identities, not American identity. So there isn't a 'American national' interest to be at stake here. Whenever the situation changes as such one lobby can't no longer asure the silent acceptance of other lobbies in America for the continuation of a prolonged foreign war, the war is finished, as far as America is concerned.(minh@wp.pl)
_____________________________________________________________________
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"Therefore it seems obvious to me that revenge for 9/11 could not have been a major factor in the invasion itself (not for strategic planners) but it was intentionally employed to secure public support for that invasion and for its undeclared agenda."
I have a short disscusion of this issue here.
Hello Abu Khaleel,
Vengence is not a US cultural norm. Feuding is relegated to comic relief featuring 'hillbillies' and other uncouth rural stereotypes. OTH, this is not a universal characteristic as there are many cultures where it is very important (Arab but also Italian(la vendetta=revenge),etc. Sometimes it doesn't appear that there is even much of a 'vendetta' against Bin Ladin, just a rather an impersonal, 'where'd we go wrong' angst.
(Still revenge emotions are the best thing about Italian operas from Rigolleto to Pagliacci.)
I wonder how many of the 'mistakes' stem from such neo-con 'cultural deafness' who only recognise only their own values as universal.
# posted by 
: 8/6/05 7:53 AM
: 8/6/05 7:53 AM Hello Bruno,
Well, to a point, I have to conceed your objection. As to the movies, there are quite a few revenge-fantasy type films like Dirty Harry, but alot of the anger seems to be against 'misguided' people who try to prevent the hero from uninhibitedly killing the baddies, so 'society' does seem to oppose revenge on principle.
In WW2, Pearl Harbor called for revenge against Japan, so that was clearly a war of revenge. However, I still maintain that the duty of revenge is not a US cultural norm and that motive must be officially concealed or atleast denied.
I guess I was trying to make a point about about a clash of cultures that lead to mistakes(the old topic)rather than undeclared US motives. Somewhere in the mix there is obviously a misplaced desire for revenge, but you will get a wall of denials if you bring it up.
One aspect of revenge is also the personal revenge of Bush(he has this reputation personally) against Saddam for assasination attempts against his father and we have all heard the stories of Bush possessing Saddam's personal firearms. This could have had a pivotal role in the selection of Saddam.
Just I saw Blair on TV and he maintains that his flat-out only reason was because of Saddam's violation of UN resolutions, for what that's worth.
# posted by : 8/6/05 5:44 PM
: 8/6/05 5:44 PM May I allow myself a short, off-topic personal rant? (Before anyone objects, I will delete it in a couple of days ;)
I just thought some of the old timers may be interested to know that Abu Hadi has just left a few minutes ago!
Abu Hadi is an expatriate Iraqi whom I had met through this blog. A couple of people wrote wondering where he has disappeared. Actually he came back to Iraq some time ago. Today, he came for a visit and we spent a very pleasant evening here at home with a few other friends (one of them a common acquaintance).
Looking forward to meeting some of the other decent fellows out there sometime!
Hello Abu Khaleel,
I know it is pretty much off topic but I just came across this interesting article, which mentions that idiotic phrase 'creative destruction' as applied to the globalized world order the neo-cons worship by an economist I never head of (Lord Desai).
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/globalDimensions/research/globalizationNeitherIdeologyNorUtopia/Default.htm
# posted by : 9/6/05 7:11 AM
: 9/6/05 7:11 AM From Circular
Since Abu has allowed himself to go off-topic above, perhaps he will permit me to do the same?
I’m not contributing much to these "motive" discussions basically because I feel I don’t know enough about geo-political realities and US players to say anything intelligent. But I was interested to be redirected from Najma’s blog (astarfrommosul.blogspot.com) to Abu’s latest article in A Glimpse of Iraq about the insurgent called Spark, and his escapades in US prison camps.
Given my background, it naturally reminded me irresistibly of the stories of WW2 British POWs outwitting stupid German guards: I grew up on these. (The abortive tunnel escape at Abu Ghraib was of course another reminder.)
Isn’t this another "undeclared" US motive for this crazy war, and for everything that has happened in Iraq, Abu? Sheer f**king stupidity? An absolutely invincible ability to display ignorance, arrogance, insensitivity and criminality outside their own borders?
(Detaining Nihad’s brother’s for several months, then just letting them go without interrogation, charge, trial, or explanation - what is this saying to the people of their community, except "Duh, we don’t know what we’re doing!")
Along the lines of the old saying about familiarity breeding contempt, a couple more years of the US in Iraq and the funniest joke for Iraqis will probably be just to say "American! Freedom! Democracy! Body Armour!"
What a farce! These confused brutal clowns are going to run the world in the 21st century? Glad I won’t be around to see it!
# posted by : 9/6/05 3:56 PM
: 9/6/05 3:56 PM Circular,
Why not! Let’s go off topic to take a break from those depressing issues!
I was beginning to wonder where you were. Following Rugby matches couldn’t be a 24 hour occupation… or is it in NZ?
Talking of escapades, those boys told me of another successful escape tunnel at Bucca. It was hilarious! The floor boards of those ‘caravans’ are made of wood. The soil is mostly sand in that part of the country. Every night, the floors were removed and inmates kept busy digging that tunnel. They chose a zigzag path because the soil was so frail. Nevertheless, they were nearly discovered when outside the fence work on a newly constructed road caused a collapse. The ‘unwitting’ workers just filled up the cavity with concrete and proceeded!!! So the inmates made a detour and completed their tunnel. They said 13 of them managed to escape. 10 were caught in Basra or Um Qasr the next day trying to get on buses… by the Iraqi police. Three made it!!
As to your other remark about jokes, I think I have already mentioned that Freedom and Democracy are regarded as a joke by most Iraqis (actually I wasn’t joking). It is truly sad that they cannot be used in any local political argument (and we have many, every day) by any self-respecting person if he or she want to be taken seriously!
A few days ago, the fellow in our neighborhood who runs our new ‘privatized’ power system was having an argument with some of the neighbors. They said he was not running it enough. (To be fair, the guy was doing his best, but no 20-year old machine could cope with those long hours of power cuts) He replied sharply: “You people are impossible to satisfy. On top of Freedom and Democracy, you want a government, security, water and now… electricity!” they all laughed!
Abu Khaleel,
going back to these 'depressing issues', avenging 9/11 was not a motive at all in the invasion of Iraq.
As you stated yourself, while 'avenging 9/11' was one of the declared motives of their so-called 'WOT' or 'War On Terror', the fact that Saddam's Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with it (as the US Govt., and all Govt.s in the world, very well knew from the beginning) removes it as a real motive of any kind, declared or undeclared, for the invasion.
It was, as you say, just the way to manipulate a gullible & very misinformed US public opinion (Muslims + Arabs = 'Islamofascism') in favour of war, regardless of the target of choice. We'll see in some of your next posts whether this 'Islamofascist' bogeyman of opportunity, the 'official' target of their 'WOT', has any reality.
What keeps striking me, though, is the big number of common Americans who still love to delude themselves that there actually WAS a link between Saddam's regime and 9/11. A sizeable number that appears not just in US opinion polls but, more incredibly, up to this very day among pro-war US commentators to most Iraqi blogs (and not just to their favourite, paid-for playground, 'Iraq The Minion').
As anybody may see, this very fact puts a shadow of doubt on the very nature of American 'democracy'. One can understand why wicked politicians and their drum-gang (the Ann Coulters & the mass-media crowd) did insinuate this rather grotesque lie in the minds of 'simple people' then; what is astounding is that so many of them still believe in this Orwellian fabrication, in a way more similar to the European totalitarian regimes of the Thirties than to a 'democracy' of any kind. I say 'totalitarian regimes of the Thirties' because in that age of comparative innocence there was, in Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia, some sizeable part of the population, especially among the young, thoroughly fanaticised, and truly believing any lie spread from the top; while as far as I know in other, later, totalitarian or pseudo-totalitarian regimes, like Saddam's Iraq, the number of blind, gullible, and very very 'simple-minded' people was always much smaller. In the case of Iraq I've heard (please tell us if that's true) that after the tragedy of Saddam's war against Iran such fanatical simpletons became even scarcer, and more difficult to find.
But instead in the greatest 'democracy' there are, it seems, plenty of them.
# posted by : 10/6/05 2:52 AM
: 10/6/05 2:52 AM I think a word from the "off topic" in question may be in order here:-)
I am not sure who is responsible for bringing me together with Abu Khaleel. Was it sheer chance, was it blogging? war on terror? either way I am only glad that the Iraqi condition does produces glimpses of happiness. For it was a joy meeting him and his dear wife.. lets say Um Khaleel!
I wont betray AK with a personal description, but I have to report I sat in the very room where he does all of his blogging. The room has a large window view of a well kept garden (for the man is a self confessed farmer) and has all the modcons to keep him going through those power cuts we keep hearing about.
He is right about the old generator across the road.. this machine must have an interesting history to tell.. when it cuts out it makes such a shrieky noise that I am sure must have woken up AK countless times every night.
Before I go back to my own world, I must report that what amazes me most about AK's writings is the coolness and sense of fairness, when life in Baghdad lends itself to neither to put it mildly.
If there are any takers of AK's offer to visit, I do recommend sampling the delights of Um Khaleel's cooking. It really is something else... I am considering weekly meetings now:-)
Abu Off Topic
# posted by : 10/6/05 3:07 AM
: 10/6/05 3:07 AM Abu Khaleel
I found this interesting site
doyou have any comment on it's theory??
http://www.altalib.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41
# posted by : 10/6/05 8:14 AM
: 10/6/05 8:14 AM Well, now I am getting very interested in your cooking (!) and indeed the stories about 'the old generator across the road..' And I am curious also to an extended exchange of off-topics discourses between AK and AH ;)
(I can't recall when it was the last time that i found so much joy in reading 'commentsection :)
best to you,
-c-
Cile,
It was a nice break, wasn’t it? It was truly a fascinating coincidence that I and Abu Hadi are exactly the same age. We went abroad the same year, to the same county in the same country. I really did enjoy that evening.
By the way, that common friend was the same guy I went with to see the gentleman from the UN during the early days of the invasion to advocate the grass roots democracy… and challenged him to say which of us was Sunni and which was Shiite… and he guessed wrong ;)
Back to the ‘depressing issues’…
Observer,
I don’t know! I guess most countries consider a variety of scenarios!!! Such schemes may sound good on paper or encouraging in the minds of people who want them to succeed… but facts on the ground and the reaction of people may sometimes be difficult to predict. That plan had not the slightest chance of succeeding... not in a 1000 years!!
As the poet al Mutanabbi, who I’m quite fond of, said about 1000 years ago:
Not all one wishes one attains…
… Winds may blow not to ships’ desire!
To say Invading Iraq to Avenge 9/11 is like to say bombing North Vietnam in '60s for causing the Tonkin bay incident. Apart from the two WTC towers, the event in the Pentagon is much less clear. The fight in Iraq and Afganistan now is about the control of the future of the Middle East, as the fight in Vietnam was about the control of SE Asia. Many commentators emphasize on the difference between Iraq and Vietnam, but forget to mention that America remains the same. It still driven by lobbies of different identities, not American identity. So there isn't a 'American national' interest to be at stake here. Whenever the situation changes as such one lobby can't no longer asure the silent acceptance of other lobbies in America for the continuation of a prolonged foreign war, the war is finished, as far as America is concerned.(minh@wp.pl)
# posted by : 29/8/05 4:09 PM
: 29/8/05 4:09 PM << Home
