Wednesday, September 15, 2004

 

Terrorists and TV


Another light note!

My last post on how a hypothetical terrorist would vote in the coming US presidential elections drew a good variety of comments.

One notable comment presented a counter-argument on how such a terrorist would vote for Kerry.

Someone pasted an article by Robert Fisk which had a good perspective: "Any cop, confronted by any crime, looks for a motive. But confronted by an international crime against humanity, we were not to be allowed to seek the motive."

But the one I liked most was one that offered such motives:

"These people want us dead because we give women rights, watch TV and don't pray to Allah 5 times a day."

Now I find that quite interesting:

• We know that these people have also targeted Saudi Arabia several times.
• We also know that the Saudis don't give women equal rights and actually pray to Allah 5 times a day.
• This leaves only one thing in common: watching TV!!!

We can therefore conclude that these people are killing us because we watch TV.



Comments:

I was being a little sarcastic...but you obviously didn't 'get it'.

So just what are you trying to say? That we DESERVE to be killed for other reasons that I didn't list? The number one reason (as we ALL know) is because we're (mostly) NOT Muslim. What a crime, I guess we should all be killed eh?

They hate EVERYTHING about us - I was just picking on a few points to show how stupid they are. Apparently, you're one of them.

Pete
 
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...also:

"We know that these people have also targeted Saudi Arabia several times." - only because they want to run the state in their radical form. It certainly is NOT because they hate ALL Saudis and their lifestyle. Remember these are the people that do public beheadings that can be stopped by a bribe. These are really their kind of people. Yes, they're JUST like us - not.

"We also know that the Saudis don't give women equal rights and actually pray to Allah 5 times a day." - so what's your point? We all know that is the Saudi royals that they're targeting. Who are you trying to fool?

"This leaves only one thing in common: watching TV!!!
" - lets talk about the TV *programming* on this one. I'm well aware of the religious nut-cases on Saudi TV, that's a little different than the freedoms we have here. They're also state run - AND PREACH HATE TO AMERICA. So it's hardly the same thing!

How about you just stop being so ignorant and realize the kind of demonic mentality that these people have. It is EVERYTHING about the west that they hate and they want to kill ALL of us because we don't agree with them.

FINE - pick your side. You obviosly think we deserve what we get - AND SO DO YOU. If the 'big attack' on the U.S. ever happens (as you probably wish) - watch out, be careful what you ask for. We've been pretty reserved at this point, believe it or not. If we decided to not discriminate we could annihilate all of you in the blink of an eye.

If it came down to us or you, YOU won't win.

Pete
 
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Dear Abu Khaleed,
I very much appreciate your blogs. They are essential (like some other Iraqi blogs, like those of the Jarred family and that of Riverbend) to show the world that all the fanatical propaganda about 'the islamofascist terrorists' who want to destroy the West is just baloney; the Iraqis are just people like everybody else. Those who want to conquer the world are others, the 'American Saddamists', as you brilliantly called them, a dangerous bunch of fundamentalist fanatics who seem set to declare war against all the peoples of the Earth. Some of them, like this 'Pete', luckily do forget that these blogs & comments are read not just by Americans and Iraqis, but by all the world: and that in this way one can see these loony Americans for what they are!
Keep up the good work,
an Italian.
 
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Here in the U.S. we have our own terrorists, who want to kill people because they support the UN, believe in equal access to jobs in spite of race or creed, or work in or use medical facilities which provide (or help provide) abortions. The largest terrorist action prior 9/11/2001 was performed by a couple such terrorists, who hoped to spark a rebellion by their action.

From my readings, it appears the various Islamic terrorist groups are little different from the various American terrorist groups except that the American groups tend to be anti-Muslim and the Islamic terrorist groups tend to be anti-Christian. Both sets of terrorist groups tend to be anti-Jewish (and there are Israeli terrorists who are anti-Muslim and anti-Christian also).

Abu Khaleel, what do you think of the Wahabbi claim that most of the current crowd of terrorists are Qutbi rather than Wahabbi? (An American parallel would be 'followers of Father Conklin' rather than Irish Roman Catholics) Another question, if you think you can even attempt an answer---during the late 1990s the Pope visited the Philipines. While he was there, AlQaeda attempted to assassinate him. Do you have any ideas why he was their target? (Note, they did not target Pope Shenouda in Egypt, Mar Raphael BiDawid in Iraq, Mor Ignatius Zakka in Syria...)

Pete,
If you would check out what is already known about Al Qaeda, you would make different claims. In regards to the US, in 2001 AlQaeda had 2 issues. The primary issue was our presence on 'sacred' Saudi soil (I put 'sacred' in quotes because it refers not to the area around the holy cities, but Saudi Arabia in general. There have been Saudis for the past century or more who felt that ALL of Saudi Arabia should be banned to non-believers.) This info was available to anyone on the web on September 9th, 2001. I know because I found it on a web-site dedicated to tracking terrorist groups.

Be Well,
Bob Griffin
 
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Pete,
I've just read a couple of your comments on the previous post, and I have one question. Where, in what translation or paraphrase of the Bible, does God (or Jesus...) refer to ANYONE as a 'pussy'? Where does God (or Jesus or) claim not to be a 'pussy?' Please give chapter, verse, and translation or paraphrase name (e.g. Hezekiah 3:45, New American Paraphrase; 3 Peter 4:25, God's Word to Today's Streets).

If you'd like to c o n s i d e r a 2nd question -- what does Jesus mean in Matthew when he tells his listeners to 'be perfect as your father who is in heaven is perfect'? (Matt 5) How does Jesus describe perfection? (same question rephrased)

Be Well,
 
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An Italian:

You said, "all the fanatical propaganda about 'the islamofascist terrorists' who want to destroy the West is just baloney; the Iraqis are just people like everybody else."

Your analysis is an incredibly superficial. I sure that Abu Khaleel would agree that there are some foreign Jihadi amongst the "resistance." There are also a number of other "resistance" groups that are Iraqi in nature, but that is another matter.

One of the Jihadi groups, Al Quaeda, has an explicit ideology based on establsihing a new Caliphate throughout all Muslim lands by violent means. This means a protracted war against all that don't fall in line, including the Shia, whom they consider to be apostates. What is so hard to understand about this?

Mark-In-Chi-Town
 
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Mark,

In 2002, the only active AlQaeda type group in Iraq was in the Kurdish area. Now apparently they're spreading through the Sunni triangle.
 
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Bob: I never claimed to be Jesus Christ :) I'm a mere human with desires and lack of discipline, I try and live a life with Christ's teachings in mind - but I sometimes fail :(

Yes, I'm a Christian with a bit of an attitude! Jesus doesn't expect you to be perfect, that's the whole point - he forgives and only through his salvation and fogiveness can we reach heaven, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to behave badly. So I'm sorry for offending anyone :) I just can't believe that people think Iraqi's and the world would be better off with Saddam still in power - I want to 'push back' at times.

However, I don't agree with your position about Al-Qaeda. I've seen the blind hate in the eyes of violent people, they need no excuse to hurt - this has NOTHING to do with Saudi hosting us. It is nothing but and excuse, a rallying point for radicals, a reason that the ignorant will follow. Don't forget, it's also 'about' Palestine. You know, the people that have a so-called 'right' to their so-called 'historical homeland'. It is nothing of the sort. Read your history. The area has been taken over a hundred times, the Jews have as much right as anybody else. They SHOULD live in peace TOGETHER but OBL and Arafat will only be happy with ONE THING - the COMPLETE destruction of the Jews and Israel. They MUST keep up the hate against Jews and Americans - this is the only way to keep new fighters coming.

Of course all of the bad people from Saddam's regime weren't killed during the major war. They would naturally, as has happened many times throughout history, join others that want to fight a common enemy. The 'others' being jihadi's coming in from outside Iraq. We're fighting all of them, it will take time. What will be left are good Iraqi's that want freedom and democracy.

Pete
 
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Pete,
I never saw, or thought I saw, or thought I should see a claim by you that you were Jesus Christ, or that you were as good as Jesus... What I saw was
" If we don't fight they'll attack us, therefore we're only left with one choice - anihilate them."
"We WILL destroy them, we must - choose your side and fight by it, otherwise get out of our way."
and so forth.
I used to go to church with a lot of folks who felt Reagan was really a bit too liberal. I've heard a lot of this stuff. However, I don't find it in the New Testament. What I've found quite often is a self-righteous, self-congratulatory attitude among some of my fellow Christians, who would apparently gladly see anyone against them sent swiftly to hell. It seems a lot of Christians like to have attitude!

You need to do a bit of research on AlQaeda. The following sites give good info:
http://www.terrorismfiles.org/
'Current goal is to establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes it deems "non-Islamic" and expelling Westerners and non-Muslims from Muslim countries'
http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/alqaeda.html
"It seeks to rid Muslim countries of what it sees as the profane influence of the West and replace their governments with fundamentalist Islamic regimes."

Several items to search through google for background: Zawahiri, Qutbism, Salafi.

Yes, this is DEFINITELY related to Saudi Arabia hosting us infidels! And for AlQaeda, while Palestine is important, the Palestinians are secondary except that they (many of them) are Muslims.

Regarding Israel/Palestine: If you check up on the history of the Philistine cities you'll see evidence that the Philistines remained in the land from the time of the judges until at least the Roman period, as a non-Jewish people with a separate culture. So the Gaza Strip Palestinians have been in the land nearly as long as the Israelites. If you read up on Israel in the time of Jesus you'll come across a number of mentions of Gentile (primarily Greek-speaking) cities throughout much of the land. Arafat is not interested in the destruction of the Jews. Hamas & Palestinian Islamic Jihad on the other hand do look towards the destruction of the Jews, only differing on timing and methods. (Look up Kahane Chai for a Jewish equivalent)

Read up on the controversy between Ben Gurion and Martin Buber, and on the history and characteristics of the 1st and 2nd Aliyahs. There's some really surprising stuff there.

By the way, back in April I read a quote from an Assyrian (Christian) store-owner from Basra who was saying that things had actually been safer for him and his family under Saddam (who severely oppressed the Assyrian people).

Be Well,
 
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Bob,

It is very important that innocents are defended, with force if necessary - this isn't contradictory to Christianity. I feel many want their world to remain the same and are apathetic to the suffering of others and would rather do nothing if it means sacrifice on their part. I'm very much against this. I don't believe there's anyting wrong with what I said - even if it is a bit antagonistic.

"What I've found quite often is a self-righteous, self-congratulatory attitude among some of my fellow Christians, who would apparently gladly see anyone against them sent swiftly to hell." - I agree, I've seen the same thing. I love all people except demons that want to kill and destroy anybody who doesn't agree with them. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Sorry, I completely disagree with you about Al-Qaeda. I read plenty - I'm not uninformed at all. What I'm trying to tell you is that what is SAID (reasons for attacking us) is very different than reality. If we had never set foot on Saudi soil 9/11 would still have happened (I believe). This is a clash of ideologies and culture - they hate us for a hundred reasons.

I never said non-Jews never occupied the land, I'm saying that many people have been there - that is fact, and nobody has the right to claim 'it is soley their land'. Would you like to discuss the means that Islam spread throughout the region? Do you believe that Israel/Jews have no right to exist there? Why isn't it OK for them to live together in peace? Why do innocent people have to be blown up in a market place or on a bus? This happens because of the leadership - don't tell me Arafat doesn't want them killed.

As far as people being safer under Saddam, sure - right now. I don't think you should judge every decision from a short-term point-of-view. Germany took years to stabilize too.

I just don't get this 'we should have left Saddam in power' crap. Have mistakes been made, sure - but who on earth wouldn't have made any? It is inevitable - this blogger just thinks that none should have been made. This is unreasonable, if one mistake wouldn't have been made by one person then another, different, one would have been made by somebody else. We don't live in a perfect world and this HAD to be done. Some seem to think that there's some 'perfect plan' that would only have hurt bad people.

I believe you're being a little naive, Al-Qaeda's ULTIMATE goal is to have Islam be the only religion world-wide - to dominate. It has nothing to do with 'Muslim countries' and western influence.

As I've said before, I sponsor poor children around the world, regardless of race or religion - violence is not my first choice, I just believe ridding the world of Saddam was a correct action.

Pete
 
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Dear Peter,

1) Regarding Israel/Palestine--Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians should deny the other group's history in the land and/or claim to it. However, the Zionists did decide in the 1930s to deny the Palestinians an EQUAL claim. I use the term 'Zionist' here because there were a number of Jewish thinkers who wanted a bi-national/bi-ethnic land rather than a Jewish-dominated land. There were requests from Jewish leaders in the 1930s to hold the Jewish immigrant population to parity with the local Palestinian population.
1a) There are both Jewish and Palestinian groups which would deny the land to the other group. Kahane Hai is one such group (named after Meir Kahane, and meaning 'Kahane lives'). Hamas is another such group. Both the Jewish and the Palestinian groups are primarily comprised of extremist fundamentalists.
1b) Arafat is not a fundamentalist. He's more of a Palestinian nationalist. (that's why there are Palestinian Christians associated with the PLO)

2) AlQaeda might well have targetted the US eventually. However the focus of radical Islam is and has been the Muslim world. Greece is not targetted, nor is Armenia, nor Georgia, as these are not considered Muslim nations. The Philippines are targetted because of the Moros. France is targetted because of the Algerians. Spain is targetted because of AlAndalus (historical/mythical Muslim kingdom. Historical in fact, mythical in impact---check out the post on Muslim Wake Up)
If you check your Muslim history, you'll find that when Islam spread outside of the Arabian peninsula conversion (from religions of the book) was suppressed at first--the rulers wanted the tax from the non-believers. There were Christian communities in Muslim Spain. There are currently Christian communities in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Malaysia & Indonesia [where many were subject to ethnic-cleansing during the 1990s]. There are even native Christian communities in Pakistan (rather oppressed however). Yes, the Christians, Jews, Mandeans, and Zoroastrians tend to be oppressed, with that oppression varying.
Yes, there are Muslims who seek world domination. The are Christians who seek the same (I know, I used to read their literature [and no, it's not the 'Christian' neo-nazis]). Both religions have spread by conquest and force. Both religions have also spread by peaceful conversion.
There is a good reason that when the Jews were kicked out of Spain they fled to the Muslim nations. (Note--Jewish culture flourished in Spain under Muslim rule, but was generally [not always] oppressed under the Spanish Christians)
Be Well,
 
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Bob,

While I could be wrong, I doubt you're a historian - I'm certainly not. I do know, however, that many sources will argue these 'facts' all day long. The argument just descends into 'nuance oblivion'. What I SEE is this:

1. Arafat is an extremist and promotes terror.
2. Palestinians teach their children to hate Israel and become martyrs.
3. Not all Muslims are terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims.
4. Christians don't go around beheading people in the name of their God.
5. Christians aren't flying other countries aircraft into their own buildings.
6. The Taliban treated women like animals.
7. Middle East, state run, media fuel extremists.
8. Al Qaeda's people are on a 'constant jihad' until Islam dominates the earth.
9. Christian based countries are quite tolerant of other religions, many Islamic countries are not.
10. The unrepresented people in the Middle East have been let into darkness and poverty by the likes of Saddam, Arafat, etc...
11. Democracies are not at war with each other but almost all conflicts involve Muslims.
12. People like Saddam are the one's that should be held responsible for THEIR ACTIONS and the consequences that followed - there is no justification for their ways.
13. The events of 9/11 made the world incompatible with Saddam, he was a unique problem for many reasons.
14. History will continue to disclose many more facts about the Saddam regime, oil for food scams, terror links, weapons, etc.
15. Saddams regime was facilitating global corruption.
16. Your enemy isn't going to tell you when they're going to attack, Iraq was a closed society with a morbid record - I'm not going to "hope" my enemies aren't really there.
17. Inspections are weak and can't prove anything.
18. Iraq hindered the inspection process which encourages distrust.
19. These bastards would love to kill me and my family.
20. If we withdrew from Iraq it would become a literal safe heaven for terrorists and we'd only have to go back there once they attack us again.

I'm not sure about what you're trying to say - that Israeli's deserve having innocent women and children blown up on buses? That Islam is justified in killing because it's "their turn", after all, Christians have done the same thing? That the Islamists would just leave us alone if we just withdrew everything back to U.S. soil?

I DON'T HATE MUSLIMS - One of my best friends is a Muslim and a wonderful person. I respect his belief that he and Islam are peaceful - he shows this in his everyday life.

You can take the side of Islamists, Saddam, Palestinian militants if you want - you'll never convince me that they're on the side of righteousness.

Pete
 
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Pete,
I don't believe the terrorists (of whatever ilk) are really on the side of righteousness. However, I am firmly convinced that each group of terrorists DOES believe that it IS on the side of righteousness.

I'm NOT saying that Israelis deserve having innocents of whatever age blown up. I'm NOT saying that ANY side is justified because "it's 'their turn".

I believe we've reached an impasse here.

Be Well,


You're right, I'm not an historian.
 
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Abu:

Al Lorentz (alorentz@truevine.net), a reservist currently serving with the US Army in Iraq wrote:

Before I begin, let me state that I am a soldier currently deployed in Iraq, I am not an armchair quarterback. Nor am I some politically idealistic and naïve young soldier, I am an old and seasoned Non-Commissioned Officer with nearly 20 years under my belt. Additionally, I am not just a soldier with a muds-eye view of the war, I am in Civil Affairs and as such, it is my job to be aware of all the events occurring in this country and specifically in my region.

I have come to the conclusion that we cannot win here for a number of reasons. Ideology and idealism will never trump history and reality.

When we were preparing to deploy, I told my young soldiers to beware of the "political solution." Just when you think you have the situation on the ground in hand, someone will come along with a political directive that throws you off the tracks.

I believe that we could have won this un-Constitutional invasion of Iraq and possibly pulled off the even more un-Constitutional occupation and subjugation of this sovereign nation. It might have even been possible to foist democracy on these people who seem to have no desire, understanding or respect for such an institution. True the possibility of pulling all this off was a long shot and would have required several hundred billion dollars and even more casualties than we’ve seen to date but again it would have been possible, not realistic or necessary but possible.

Here are the specific reasons why we cannot win in Iraq:

Read more.

Be in "peace" and

Aquele abraço!

Alvaro Frota
 
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Abu,
Great to see your blog here. Anyway for various people to have discussion, is the best antidote to the folks who want to control world affairs. Thanks for doing this.
 
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