Friday, August 06, 2004
Why Do You Blame My People?
(An overview of my blogs and an attempt to respond to comments in one long post…with my apologies for its length! I too hate long posts and I think I have so far managed to keep my posts reasonably short. I will try to make this a rare exception.)
To American Saddamists
Definition: A Saddamist is one who takes any blame towards, or criticism of, the Administration or Government as hatred of the country! In this doctrine, the "head of state" is considered to be an embodiment of the whole country!
Why does my patriotism antagonize some people? I think you have every right to be proud of your heritage and your country's achievements. Can you give me that right too? Are we football hooligans; so that your "patriotism" excludes mine?
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Clarification: People & Administration
I have never said a bad word about the American people. It would be wrong and irrational to do so.
I can't even speak ill of your government. The US government is a huge apparatus of institutions and people that mostly a-politically serves the nation the best way it can.
I only blame your, mostly political, ADMINISTRATION (and to be precise, certain segments of it) for making wrong decisions that have led to a great deal of suffering for my people and I firmly believe will cause considerable damage to your country. I want you to be even angrier than I am at that ADMINISTRATION. That's why I'm writing this blog. When you are angry enough, and because you live in a democracy, maybe things may change for the better… for both of us.
The Iraqi People Did Nothing
I can understand why you may disagree with me, and I respect that. But I cannot understand why so many lash back at the Iraqi people!
It is not fair to say that these people went to bed with the devil. Countless dead people testify to the fact that these people resisted tyranny relentlessly for decades. The fact that you didn't see it on the news does not mean that it didn't happen.
On top of that they had to endure those unfair UN sanctions that did not do much damage to the regime (they actually made its grip on power stronger) but led to untold suffering by the Iraqi people for more than a decade.
It is not fair to say that the Iraqi people did nothing.
What would have happened if you hadn't liberated us?
Probably more of the same. But one would have hoped that the will of the people would have ultimately found a way. Strictly speaking, the Iraqi people did not invite your army to liberate them. To be completely honest with you, Iraqis in their private conversations before the war, had mixed feelings about the issue. Part of them wanted to get rid of the villains at any cost, yet another part knew what occupation meant; every conqueror had told them that they had come to liberate them! Add to that that many were quite critical of the various American Administrations' track record in the area. Generally they were skeptical and apprehensive. Many remembered the unnecessary bombing and devastation of even cement plants and water treatment stations in the first Gulf war of 1991. Too many remembered that when they rose against Saddam, the Americans allowed him to fly helicopters, which he used to crush them [that's on the records in a number of memoirs].
On the other hand, some exile Iraqi politicians did advocate for the American intervention. Some of those politicians were outright crooks – convicted thieves and embezzlers some of whom have now been exposed by your own administration.
The decision was made by your ADMINISTRATION in the face of resistance by most of the world's governments and peoples.
The decision was made by your ADMINISTRATION for the wrong declared reasons. Remember Secretary Powell's impressive display of charts and data at the UN? So authoritative! Well, they were all WRONG! [I am sure the man, whom I happen to admire, must have had some sleepless nights over that presentation afterwards!]
Technically speaking, the Iraqi people never asked the US Administration in. Even now, more than a year later, the ADMINISTRATION does not care what the Iraqi people think. Poll after poll, some of them conducted by unbiased American institutions are showing that a majority of the people want the American army to leave the country immediately. Will their will affect the decision of the ADMINISTRATION?
Liberation or Invasion?
The American army came into the country.
People were cautiously watching and waiting. [And, yes, there was a golden hour!]
Then mistake after mistake was made. I dedicated an entire blog to listing those mistakes so that people may understand why the ADMINISTRATION could not win the hearts and minds of Iraqi people. But that blog was the most offensive to the American Saddamists… because it lists in boring details the MISTAKES made by the American ADMINISTRATION. [Part of this is probably my fault: the name "US Mistakes may have given the wrong impression to people who didn't read carefully!]
Do you remember all those specialist committees set up by the State Department to prepare for the running of Iraq after the war and how they were all pushed aside and ignored by some segments of the ADMINISTRATION immediately after the fall of Baghdad?
I dedicated another shorter blog to prominent non-partisan Americans' confirmation of these mistakes.
It is because of all those mistakes that the Iraqi people began to regard the American army as an invading conquering army. Many regarded it therefore as an enemy. Most people cannot be grateful to a conquering army. It is not enough that the army declares that it is not an invading army to be believed.
Why Do You Blame My People?
The American Saddamists want me to blame the Iraqi people! I happen to be very proud of the Iraqi people's performance through this ordeal.
They stood up to the forces of decay and disorder; they did not succumb to the chaos of civil war between the various sects, ethnicities and religions. They made do with what they had to get on with their lives. Without government, police, services, security, jobs, etc. etc. they managed to survive. I remind the American Saddamists of the chaos, the rapes and the looting that took place in NY City in 1979 for just one evening of power failure in the presence of government, police, etc. Would it be fair to blame the ENTIRE American people for the action of those people? Would it be fair to say that you looted, raped and damaged your own country? I know that every society has its villains, looters, extremists and what have you. It is the job and task of those in charge to keep those people in check, not the population. Do the American Saddamists have any idea how many nights we had with complete black-outs, with total absence of any government or police force? Do you have the capacity to admire those people's performance?
I blame the Iraqi people for a multitude of things but many of them are not related to this blog. One of the things I blame them for is exactly the thing I blame you, American Saddamists, for! So many people now think that America is evil and that America is bent on destroying Iraq and America this and America that. Many people here too cannot distinguish between the ADMINISTRATION and the people of America.
I can perhaps understand your disappointment at the Iraqi people's cold and ungrateful attitude. You don't understand why they resent this occupation and have done nothing to help you in helping them. But look at it this way - and please try to look at how the other side may think: Is it enough that you believe that you are helping them for them to be happy about it? Are your declared intentions enough? Is the fact that you got rid of Saddam enough to convince people to accept all those mistakes and excesses I listed? Does the doctor who cures a patient from an ailment have the right to make his life miserable afterwards? Intentions and declarations and what you believe are unfortunately not enough!
But to be fair, didn't they really help you? Didn't they let your army come into their shabby but proud capital almost un-resisted? Compare that with the fierce resistance the army faced in Fallujah for example after there was bad blood between your army and the people.
Insensitivity
Those American Saddamists are apparently so insensitive to the pain, suffering and humiliation of other people, that it really shocks me!!
When 9/11 took place I, my family and everybody I know was shocked, stunned and repulsed by what happened. Our hearts went out for you. Yet when we have a 9/11 almost everyday in this country, American Saddamisats call this "discomfort"… "so what? You suffered for decades", "you have to be patient", "the Iraqi people are to blame", "we fought for our freedom!"!... All inferring: "You ungrateful lot!"
To those people I say, all life should be precious, whether American or Iraqi. To those Saddamists I say that the number of innocent people killed in our own 9/11's are several folds more than those innocent American lives lost on the American 9/11. Can you feel no pain for those? Are they not equally precious human beings with families and people who will feel their loss probably everyday for the rest of their lives?
This may come as a shock to some of you: I happen to believe that Al Qaeda was founded, recruited, assisted and financed by other American administrations through other short-sighted policies. The general idea was that the best way to fight the communist domination of Afghanistan was through religious fervor and Islamic fundamentalists. Does it lead me to blame the American people for 9/11? Does that lead me to be so insensitive to the loss of innocent life on 9/11?
And when, the day before yesterday, I blame the ADMINISTRATION for keeping our borders open for a year, again, I am blaming America for our own failings!!
It is not the task of the population to guard borders.
Hasn't your government been taking measure after measure to safeguard your borders and entry points to make it more difficult for terrorists to get in? This is the proper thing to do for any government. Why should it be different for Iraq? We had a whole army corps dedicated to protecting our borders. Were they all Saddamists so they had to be disbanded and "reconstructed" over a period of years?
And now…Freedom!
When all those arguments regarding weapons of mass destruction proved to be WRONG; when all the arguments that Iraq had something to do with Al Qaeda or 9/11 proved to be WRONG, the argument to free the Iraqi people was, and is, being forwarded to the American public. I believe that regardless of the administration's true intentions (which we don't really know for certain) many honest Americans who supported the war and still do, do that for this reason. And what an achievement!
There is so much freedom in Iraq today!
• Any villain, murderer, nut-case or terrorist is now completely free to come into the country and do as he pleases.
• Any looter, kidnapper or criminal is now free to roam the country and terrorize the people.
• Any drug dealer is now free to distribute his poison.
• Anyone who hates the UN, mosques or churches is now free to try and blow them up.
• Anyone who hates Iraqis is now free to sabotage their electricity, water plants, hospitals and schools.
• Any regional or international power is now free to pump money into newspapers and political parties to express their views to the Iraqi people.
And…
• The Iraqi people have the greatest freedom of all: they can now yell from the pain!
But when we do yell from the pain, ah…stop complaining! It's your fault! You were oppressed! You hate America! You ungrateful lot! Why don't you blame the criminals?
So much freedom!
When someone makes a mistake that leads to the unintentional death of a person, I believe that this is called manslaughter. Does the law accept the apology of the offender and forgets about it? When someone makes mistake after mistake that leads to the death of thousands of people (Iraqi and American) and the miserable existence of millions, is it enough to say that it was done in good intention to save life? Is it an excuse that those people were already suffering before?
Why Don't You Mention the Good Things?
Guilty as charged!
I am not an impartial observer who can be completely objective. I can't afford to be. Can you blame a person who is yelling from pain for not being completely objective? Can an innocent person moved from the gas chamber to solitary confinement in death row feel much gratitude?
We Iraqis have generally developed some sensitivity to "government achievements" over the decades. For years, not a day passes without someone appearing on TV citing the "government's achievements". Actually Saddam himself used to say on numerous occasions that we were "bare-footed" before he came to power! Children in school were made to memorize those "government achievements". Are you interested to hear about them?
And now, not a week passes without someone from the US administration telling you and us of those good things that happened and of the "government achievements". Those people, I feel have enough forums and a loud enough voice.
Can you tell the average Iraqi who is jobless, fearful and insecure with his whole future in doubt and fog, that he should be grateful?
Nevertheless, and if it makes you feel better, I am grateful for the administrations effort to reduce Iraq's debts, especially odious debts that were incurred by the Iraqi people through other countries helping Saddam terrorize us and our neighbors.
On the other hand, I am not grateful for those billions of dollars of your tax money being unwisely spent to recruit more terrorists to do damage to my country and yours.
Finally
And finally, is this blog just about complaining or whining? Definitely not. I can complain to my wife all day long. God and/or our ordeals over the past decades have given her the gift of infinite patience!
It is about putting things right!
I'm also trying to enlist the help of the American people to put pressure on their ADMINISTRATION to institute a true democracy in Iraq, not to pursue the present plan to position their cronies in what looks like a democracy but is not!
This is a difficult subject and a tough task. If we can put the above arguments, that resulted from my own introduction of the subject, behind us, then perhaps we can start to discuss how! A starting point may be a blog I assigned to a scheme I had written back in 1999 under the previous regime. Saddam may have governed our lives but he couldn't control our minds.
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P.S. I look at comments as a useful feedback and a link between people. As I said before, I welcome all comments. But may I respectfully ask commentators to refrain from using foul language. It doesn't serve much purpose, it reflects in a negative way on the person who uses it and deeply offends some people.
# posted by Abu Khaleel @ 12:14 PM 
Comments:
Abu Khaleel:
I found your post quite interesting and would like to comment on several issues.
In my view, the "Saddamists" that you mentioned come in two flavors, those of the extreme "right" and those of the extreme "left." However, I would expand your definition to include all of those who "hate" and ascribe "evil intentions" to those who disgree with them on politics or policy.
MPeach (the poster immediatley above) is a good example of a leftist "Saddamist." In his world view, nothing done by the Bush adminstration could have been done for any "rational" reason. Instead, all such actions are all part of a grand conspiracy on the part of the monied interests Bush represents to oppress others.
The citation that MPeach has sent you is an op-ed piece written by a left wing, anti-globolization activist. MPeach misleadingly cites the post as if it was a hard news piece. Regarless of its partisan nature, it is a seriously flawed piece of analysis. Its main thrust is that Bremer fixed the rules to favor U.S. interests before leaving Iraq. The problem with this argument is that such rules will be largely irrelevant in the future, when popularly elected Iraqi governments will modify or ignore them as they please.
This issue brings me back to my primary point. The main locus of political action that will effect your country is going to be Iraq, not this country. The majority of people here, on both the left and the right, are fatigued by the occupation and reconstruction of Iraq. For this reason, the next President, be it Bush or Kerry, will have to be fairly reactive to peaceful expressions of political will by the Iraqi people.
Just as peaceful, mass demonstrations by the followers of Sistani scrapped Bremer's first set of political plans for your country, Iraqi politics are going to have a major effect on U.S. policy. You should know that peaceful expressions of political will are held in very high esteem by the vast majority of Americans. On the other hand, most Americans find political violence so distateful that its continuance will lead them to infer that U.S. troops are necessary to create acceptable conditions for elections. In additiional to this general distaste, the danger of a neo-Baathist despot or Salafist group dominating Iraq through political violence is seen by most as unacceptable. As I have expressed elsewhere on your blog, it is my view that U.S. troops are stuck in Iraq to defend against external threats until the Iraqi army is rebuilt, but continued political violence will prevent or delay a phased, draw down of U.S. troops.
That is why I repeat my prior advice to everyone in Iraq to get invovled in politics, whether locally, nationally or at whatever level interests them. By doing so you can work to end political violence and install whatever policies you prefer. I suspect that you and I would prefer different policies (I consider myself center-right, while you seem center-left), yet I still strongly encourage you to enter the political arena. The next major moves in your country are going to be dictated primarily by the political will of the Iraqi people, not the U.S. adminstration. I encourage you to paticipate in expressing that will.
I wish you the best of luck.
Mark-In-Chi-Town
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Thanks you for your post. I was actually proud and thought our country did a good thing by helping your country. I had heard of rape rooms...that Saddam would have his soldiers gang rape female family members to keep the people in line. I read that we've found mass graves of people shot in the head. Mass graves of 100,000+. I had heard that people didn't have the ordinary freedoms that people take for granted. I thought this was "killing two birds with one stone"...we would get rid of a tyrant that threatened the security of the world and the US and at the same time, we would free the Iraqi people.
Now, reading your blog...I realize that if you can really sit there and say these things then we were really fools to liberate you.
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Reading your post, I now see that the Iraqi people are like children. When you give a child a rare and precious gift they are unaware to comprehend it. I believe now that giving the Iraqis freedom was like giving a 10 year old a diamond stone. The child is unable to see the rarity and preciousness of it. All he notices is that it's not shiny and it doesn't look particularly attractive. He is unable to see the "diamond" in the rough. And he wants to know why his parents can't buy him the cheap plastic toy.
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You say the following: "I happen to believe that Al Qaeda was founded, recruited, assisted and financed by other American administrations through other short-sighted policies." So you're telling me that the US "founded" Al Qaeda and not Osama Bin Ladin. So Osama is lying when he says that he founded Al Qaeda??? Where exactly are you getting this information??? Or, did you mean that because we gave the Afghani people weapons for FIGHT the USSR invasion that this means we "founded" Al Qaeda?? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?? Think about it....That America "founded" and ideology that wants America's death. That we are suicidal??
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It sound like a very dedicated political operative of either the John F'n Kerry campaign or the national Democrat party has pulled a very elaborate election-year stunt. Kudos! You almost fooled me, with all of your blogs. But you make it quite clear with this blog that the sole focus of your petty hatred is President George W. Bush, and you want us to replace him with the dishonest piece of doggy excrement that goes by the name of John "Forbes" (yes, he changed his name so his initials would be "JFK") Kerry...the epitome of a say-anything-to-get-elected limousine liberal.
Thanks, but no thanks. Everyone I know is going to vote to re-elect President George W. Bush this fall. We won't be influenced by political operatives. In the remote case that you are really a simple anti-Bush Iraqi (ungrateful bastard!), please know that we don't vote for our President based upon the hate of a distant loser who conveniently ignores the fact that he has freedom he wouldn't have dreamed of when a Democrat was President of the United States of America.
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I have heard these expressions from other bloggers. From your point-of-view, you are quite correct - I can't deny much of it. There isn't a reason for you to think otherwise. I'd probably say the same if I were you.
However :) I do believe in the saying "you can't see the forest through the tress". Meaning, you can see the chaos around you but this *stops* you from seeing the bigger picture.
Here's some thoughts:
- Post 9/11, we MUST be concerned by WHO ELSE COULD commit such crimes? Saddam was given EVERY chance, he refused, EVERYBODY agreed he must have the WMDs. How could we NOT take him out? It was not about who exactly commited 9/11, his history was unique. That's why it was declared a "war on terror" - not the "Taliban" or OBL alone. Post 9/11 there was no choice. If you disagree then I say you don't understand the lessons of 9/11.
- You assume much. How "easy" it should be for a foreign country to come in and *magically* run everything perfectly. To "wave a magic wand" and have peace. When we don't speak your language. When we don't know and couldn't know who the bad/good guys were. When elements continued to fight us and we couldn't differentiate. When foreign combatants invade also. When people don't understand this.
- We have made "mistakes". Yes, but each (done on one's current knowledge), throughout US history, were caused in an attempt to solve an *immediate* problem (USSR, Iraq/Iran, WMDs, Kuwiat, etc....). I ask, would there EVER have been a "perfect" strategy? One with no loss of innocent life? One with no future consequences? Remember there are many world forces involved in why Iraq is currently the way it is, not just the US. They're just as responsible, INCLUDING Iraqis. We're ALL to blame.
We're ridiculed if we DON'T do something when we have the power to and "should". If we do, we're just the "great Satan". Democracy NEVER comes easily, that history has proven. I understand helicopter gunships make it difficult these days to revolt, now you have your chance. We have paid in many lives as well thank you.
In ten years you WILL NOT agree with yourself on certain things. On what points exactly? You'll have to tell us then :)
You have every right to be frustrated and angry. I suppose only time will heal things, I just believe you're on the right path and this was, ultimately, done as well as could it could be - *regardless* of who was in charge. If one "mistake" wasn't made, a different one would be.
Peace.
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...sorry, that is "see the forest through the TREES" (not tress).
Pete
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Your complaints can be summed up as - war is hell. This is true. But wars all come to an end. And whoever survives, is able to bring their children up in a wonderful country. The once-off cost for freedom is what your generation has to pay, to make a better life for your children. This is what most people want. A better life for their children.
You will try to tell your children how during the war you had no electricity etc etc, and your children, who have never had anything other than 24*7 electricity, will call you a whinger, "what's so bad about that?". They will not have the concept of how difficult that is for you.
And you will smile. Assuming you are one of the lucky 99.9% of Iraqis who survive this war, anyway.
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mpeachw:
Ok Michael Moore. Your rhetoric is short sighted. Your answer is NEVER to go to war, somebody always dies. OMG! I wish somebody had told me that ;)
What about FUTURE consequences of NOT going to war? This doesn't seem to enter your equation. The soldiers currently in Iraq mostly signed up KNOWING they'd go to Iraq and MANY are going back because the KNOW they're doing a good thing.
No, "we can't all just get along" when there are people that want to dominate the WHOLE WORLD with their interpretation of Sharia law. Become Muslim or die, or at the very least pay the "jizya" tax and become a second class human being. Not for me. They don't hate us because we pissed them off, they hate us because our way of life offends them. Our Christian heritage offends them. Our freedoms offend them. They love death more than life (from their own mouth!). I have a family to defend, if you're not willing to do it get out of my way. You can continue to be naive and wish for a "perfect world" that will never be accomplished by your means. Remember, you're basically proposing what Clinton did for eight years - all that it won us was 9/11. You want to got back to those events happening all the time? If not, you must take the fight to them. Otherwise you're being a pussy, a coward who'll let your enemies walk all over you (Spain). Times AREN'T easy, but you have a defeatist attitude.
It sounds like your more worried about pissing these people off than recognizing them for what they are, uncompromising walking death.
I don't think my previous post tried to do anything but provoke thought. I wasn't trying to be hostile before, I am now. Sounds like you're spewing leftist hate.
Should we have allowed Hitler to take over in order to "save lives" or not "piss them off" ? It must be nice living comfortably after OTHERS gave their lives for YOUR freedom. You just don't want this disturbed - I have many names for this. BTW...I'm only getting started.
Winston Churchill - "If you're not a liberal before you're 30 you don't have a heart, if you're not a conservative after 30 you don't have a brain" (close enough)
Pete
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Hello Abu Khaleel,
This election between Bush and Kerry is very,very very bitter and you are seeing that. You would think that Americans would start shooting each other, by the talk! Iraqi war is all Bush has to show for 4 years (economy bad, foreign relations bad, 911 intelligence failure, etc.) so his failure there, the only 'good' thing he has done, is the issue of the election.
Also, remember that Americans are not polite or respectful people no matter how much they want to 'help' and much of it is quite sincere. Therefore they do not realize that even gifts will not be accepted if offered rudely.
There are American Saddamists-- we call 'flag-waving super-patriots'--the whole world knows about them and detests them (these insects are infesting a number of Iraqi blogs). Therefore to their paranoid minds, if Iraqis complain it is because they are just trying to hurt Bush's reelection. Yes, there is only Bush, love him or hate him!
In their war with the Democrats they will go anywhere and do anything to ambush their ideological opponents.
When Iraqis start their political system, please don't adopt the two-party US model, European type parties are much more civilized.
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To anonymous:
Thank you for showing your ignorance of U.S. culture. You probably also rant about "the U.S. doesn't understand the Arab world" yet you proclaim to understand us so well and have it completely backward.
I'm hardly a 'super-patriot', I became a naturalized U.S. citizen as an adult. The fact is that you believe all of the lies about the U.S. without question, we couldn't offer anything without it being 'rudely offered'. Also, get your facts straight. The unemployment rate is 5.5%, that's historically fine. GWB made decisions based on information that everybody had, the intelligence may have been faulty but that doesn't make the decision making faulty also. Not everything is as bad as you assert, be realistic.
John Kerry is like a fart in the wind as far as decision making is concerned. I would have been open to a more realistic Democratic candidate but he is a sad excuse for one. I think he'd be a disaster, that is why I want GWB to win.
I care about all people who wish to improve their own lives. The U.S. gives more assistance and monetary support than all other countries combined. We care deeply, especially about basic freedoms. Sorry, but the ME countries just doesn't provide them. Now some became a threat post 9/11. GWB declared war on the entire pathetic ME world of oppression, hate and aggressive dictatorships. Spin it any way you wish.
mpeachw:
I don't see anybody shooting here do you? Regardless of differences in opinion, as Americans, we debate peacefully. Peace and prosperity to you...
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...
mpeachw: also, if you're a fighter in the face of death - then join us supporting in the larger 'real war', the one against all of the types of forces that would LOVE to commit another 9/11 on us. Again, this is why Saddam had to go - he would have, and I won't ever believe that he wasn't encouraging/helping/assisting/planning/financing operations in many parts of the world. It was his nature.
...I WANT pitbulls on my side :)
Pete
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Abu Khaleel:
It isn't that we think Iraqis have done nothing. It is that, at some point, you must accept that Iraq/Iraqis have some responsibility for events past, current and future. Instead of just passing-the-blame off to the U.S. for all the problems that exist, that is just too easy and short sighted.
As I stated above, you have every reason for anger and frustration. However, wild conspiracy theories pointed always and entirely at the U.S. is obviously done with prejudice. I just bet that things weren't and aren't as easy as you assume.
If you think you could do a better job then I suggest you run for a public office and make a difference. Although I doubt we'd get a 'thank you' for you having the opportunity to do so...
Regards,
Pete
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Hello Pete,
I never heard of you when I mentioned American Saddamists, but you prove my point brilliantly...
"John Kerry is like a fart ...[that is] why I want GWB to win"
So the bottom line is Bush must win. Do you care about Iraqis at all? Face it, you're a waste of [cyber]space.
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...all I see here is Bush bashing. Typical, ignorant, uneducated, slanderous, Kerry-blind Bush bashing.
Do you guys do anything but bash Bush? Your rhetoric is like a script that you've all been given. You don't ever provide honest, objective or fair opinions. You never listen to anything that I've said (would've been open to a different Dem candidate, etc.).
Do I care about Iraqi's? wow. I suppose you do because you're against the war, anybody for the war must hate Iraqi's right? I can't imagine a more pathetic and shallow opinion.
I have every reason to believe JK isn't fit to be President. He's running purely on the fact that he was in Vietnam, that's all. That's really sad. You lot don't see your own hypocracy, for you, "the bottom line is Kerry must win". Duh? You're not voting out of blind hate? You are and it is obvious.
I laugh at your attempt to get rid of me :) ...fuels the fire. I feel sorry for you really, all you can do is attack somebody who has a different opinion than yours. What happened to "healthy dialog", "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression" - or do these things only apply if I'm a liberal? You apparently need to "shut me up" - how un-American.
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...
mpeachw:
Are you saying:
- OBL had nothing to do with 9/11?
- OBL doesn't want to attack the U.S.?
- Saddam was a 'nice guy' who should have been left alone?
- Saddam had nothing to do with global terrorism and wasn't exterminating his own people?
- Saddam wasn't a threat to its neighbors?
- Saddam never had WMDs?
- Saddam accounted for his stockpiles acceptably?
- Although Saddam had USED WMDs and had GONE TO WAR with two of its neighbors he was no different than NK?
- Saddam wasn't a threat at all, to anyone?
- Saddam wasn't an impediment to freedom in the region and didn't teach hate toward the U.S. that leads to people doing things LIKE 9/11?
- Saddam had NO links to terrorism or Al-Qaeda?
- Everything should be 'rosey' just 1 1/2 years after eliminating Saddam's regime?
How naive. No, I don't feel safe. There are still many terrorists, already radicalized during the Clinton years, that want you AND me dead. Sometimes things get worse before they get better. If you had a hornets nest on one side of your house would you just avoid that side out of fear of 'sturring them up'? No, you'd realize that it's a growing problem that must be dealt with before the inevitable happens.
Iraqi's are responsible for looting, so-called 'resistance' killings, lack of rebuilding and, consequently, employment.
Pete
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Reading the "iraqi letter to America" I believe we should have just left Saddam there with his rape rooms, starving the Iraqis and killing his people. We are spending billions and all this guy can do is blame Bush??
What a waste...
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To the many ignorant posters:
Read the 9/11 report and you'll find that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 BUT HE WAS HOSTING AL QAEDA in IRAQ. In other words he had numerous terrorist contacts.
Now stay with me here because many of you seem really dense. You see the fear was that Saddam would give over a dirty bomb to his new friends Al Qaeda. Get it?
He had already proven himself to be a crazy dictator unlike the generic run of the mill dictators we are usually forced to deal with. For instance, he INVADED KUWAIT. The world wasn't very happy about that. That's right boys and girls. Even the UN and FRANCE and RUSSIA. After 9/11 the US realized that they could no longer afford to PACIFY Saddam. Now do you idiots get it???
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To the previous poster. Iraqis are like little children. First Saddam took care of them. Now the US.
Mark my words. They will be sitting on the sidelines wondering why the US isn't giving them a new economy, creating jobs and making sure they are safe. Let me tell you. They dont' see us as liberating them and giving THEM back their country. Now that they have democracy they don't have a clue as to what a great gift that means or what to do with it.
However, I assure you, they certainly know how to complain and Monday Morning Quarterbacking as to what SHOULDA, COULDA been done.
The bottom line is we had to do it for World and US safety but don't expect any sort of thank you from the Iraqis anytime soon.
Thanks
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I agree that we should have just done nothing. We should have left the Taliban alone in Afghanistan and not attacked Iraq. I guess we were scared after 9/11 that Saddam could work with Al Qaeda and hit us even worse than 9/11. Having said that....
I just want to ask those of you who knew that the war in Afghanistan and Iraq was wrong what exactly should we have done after Afghanistan. Other than getting Bin Ladin since he is a figurehead and another would just crop up in his place anyway. Let me know.
Thanks
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mpeachw:
I'll take the lack of answers to my questions as a lack of ability to answer them fairly.
None of you ever do anything but 'armchair-quarterback' everything in hindsight. You can't provide any solid alternative AT THE TIME a decision has to be made. You don't understand the consequences of INACTION. You don't understand the 'war on terror', which was ALWAYS greater than just the Taliban and Afghanistan - it was recognition of the greater problem. Your solution is to 'not piss people off', 9/11 DID happen you know, WE were victims of hate - and it came with a Quran attached to it (even if only by a minorities extreme opinion). Well, if you're a Pitbull then I'm Godzilla.
You don't understand how delicate the situation is with Pakistan and we couldn't wait until OBL is caught before we continued with business in the 'war on terror'. Glad you're not in charge.
So you think we're in a police state eh? oh really? When was the last time you lived in a police state? This is the utlimate example of taking your freedom for granted, you complain about things here but don't have a clue what living in a REAL police state is like. Let me guess, you're a pissed off 20-something (years old). You don't really believe they want to attack us, not because we now don't have freedom but, because we pissed them off? ...you're bordering on nut-job here.
The 'foreign policy' they claim as a cause is about Israel and our support for it, which spans MANY administrations including your beloved Bill C. They hate us because we're not Muslim, we're primarily Christian, we're democratic and have music & TV. That's not going to change anytime soon, so wake up and smell the ricin.
Pete
_____________________________________________________________________
To the poster above:
Thanks for listing everything you think we shouldn't have done.
Now, please tell me what we SHOULD have done. we are going to play the woulda shoulda game.
Now you are the President of the US. You're country has just been hit with 9/11. You know that Saddam (who has invaded Kuwait even though most of the world did not think he was crazy enough to do it) and has gassed the kurds has had numerous CONTACTS with Al Qaeda. Now you know Saddam MAY not have anything to do with 9/11 but he certainly has something to do with 9/11. What do YOU do?
Do you sit around and just pray that we don't get hit with another 9/11. Please let me know YOUR plan for the US.
Also,If your grand plan is to get Osama. Even if we did....would that mean it was OVER??? Or would another rise to take his place?
As for Afghanistan, should we have left Al Qaeda in power of Afghanistan and a place to train and plot?
I eagerly away your REPLIES to ALL my Questions.
Thanks
_____________________________________________________________________
I just read the letter to America and basically it should be called "letters" to America. I believe the blogger is saying "Fuck you". After reading this I am now wondering why we spent BILLIONS of the US money to liberate and support these people?? Maybe we should have taken our chances with getting blown up again by Al Qaeda. They actually have the nerve to believe that their country was BETTER with Saddam and the rape rooms, murders. If they are that stupid they DESERVE a dictator like saddam. Yes, maybe that is harsh but c'mom. Here we are spending BILLIONS...yes, BILLIONS and we have shed our childrens' BLOOD and this guy is bitching and moaning that everything isn't perfect by now???? Are you kidding me???
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mpeachw:
you still haven't answered my questions. I don't assume anything, you come across loud and clear - one day you'll realize there are circumstances that only war can resolve: WWI/II, Korea, Bosnia, Kuwait, Afghanistan AND Iraq. It takes both sides to want peace, if the other side doesn't then you either fight or die. Currently, the 'other side' is the radical religious hate that has been fomenting for decades. You probably think that is all our fault, they're just 'nice guys'. What will you say when these idiots kill thousands next time?
It is your logic that is flawed because you only offer criticism, not practical solutions - just like John Kerry!
Pete
_____________________________________________________________________
mpeachw:
you are feeding your sickness by accepting/reciting every bit of drivel you're fed.
"My solution to 911 is to go after the one responsible."
This is proof positive that you and the lefties DON'T GET IT. You couldn't have said it better. This is about WHO ELSE could/would-love-to do a similar atrocity - otherwise we'd have called it the "War On OBL". You need to see the bigger picture. Still, this ISN'T an answer to my questions - you don't have answers.
"He lied...blah blah, fill in the blanks here ____"
It is now very clear, proven by multiple reports (that you conveniently ignore), that there was no 'lie'. To continue to state this makes you a liar yourself. It also shows that you're completely incapable of reading and researching FACTS and come to some reasonable, balanced, conclusions. You believe every leftist lie your told. You show yourself to be nothing but an extremist leftie with no logic other than hate.
You need to read opinions other than those from liberal idiots. I doubt you can stand reading www.chronwatch.com can you? ...if you don't ever read such material you can hardly claim to have a balanced point of view. We ALL KNOW about the leftist opinion, the media rams it down our throats.
Read the U.N. pre-war report on the state of Iraq's WMDs. Then we can have reasonable discussion, I'm done with you until then.
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IM TIERD OF YOU STUPID FUCKING LIBERIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Abu Khaleel:
I found your post quite interesting and would like to comment on several issues.
In my view, the "Saddamists" that you mentioned come in two flavors, those of the extreme "right" and those of the extreme "left." However, I would expand your definition to include all of those who "hate" and ascribe "evil intentions" to those who disgree with them on politics or policy.
MPeach (the poster immediatley above) is a good example of a leftist "Saddamist." In his world view, nothing done by the Bush adminstration could have been done for any "rational" reason. Instead, all such actions are all part of a grand conspiracy on the part of the monied interests Bush represents to oppress others.
The citation that MPeach has sent you is an op-ed piece written by a left wing, anti-globolization activist. MPeach misleadingly cites the post as if it was a hard news piece. Regarless of its partisan nature, it is a seriously flawed piece of analysis. Its main thrust is that Bremer fixed the rules to favor U.S. interests before leaving Iraq. The problem with this argument is that such rules will be largely irrelevant in the future, when popularly elected Iraqi governments will modify or ignore them as they please.
This issue brings me back to my primary point. The main locus of political action that will effect your country is going to be Iraq, not this country. The majority of people here, on both the left and the right, are fatigued by the occupation and reconstruction of Iraq. For this reason, the next President, be it Bush or Kerry, will have to be fairly reactive to peaceful expressions of political will by the Iraqi people.
Just as peaceful, mass demonstrations by the followers of Sistani scrapped Bremer's first set of political plans for your country, Iraqi politics are going to have a major effect on U.S. policy. You should know that peaceful expressions of political will are held in very high esteem by the vast majority of Americans. On the other hand, most Americans find political violence so distateful that its continuance will lead them to infer that U.S. troops are necessary to create acceptable conditions for elections. In additiional to this general distaste, the danger of a neo-Baathist despot or Salafist group dominating Iraq through political violence is seen by most as unacceptable. As I have expressed elsewhere on your blog, it is my view that U.S. troops are stuck in Iraq to defend against external threats until the Iraqi army is rebuilt, but continued political violence will prevent or delay a phased, draw down of U.S. troops.
That is why I repeat my prior advice to everyone in Iraq to get invovled in politics, whether locally, nationally or at whatever level interests them. By doing so you can work to end political violence and install whatever policies you prefer. I suspect that you and I would prefer different policies (I consider myself center-right, while you seem center-left), yet I still strongly encourage you to enter the political arena. The next major moves in your country are going to be dictated primarily by the political will of the Iraqi people, not the U.S. adminstration. I encourage you to paticipate in expressing that will.
I wish you the best of luck.
Mark-In-Chi-Town
# posted by 
: 6/8/04 8:37 PM
: 6/8/04 8:37 PM Thanks you for your post. I was actually proud and thought our country did a good thing by helping your country. I had heard of rape rooms...that Saddam would have his soldiers gang rape female family members to keep the people in line. I read that we've found mass graves of people shot in the head. Mass graves of 100,000+. I had heard that people didn't have the ordinary freedoms that people take for granted. I thought this was "killing two birds with one stone"...we would get rid of a tyrant that threatened the security of the world and the US and at the same time, we would free the Iraqi people.
Now, reading your blog...I realize that if you can really sit there and say these things then we were really fools to liberate you.
# posted by : 6/8/04 10:04 PM
: 6/8/04 10:04 PM Reading your post, I now see that the Iraqi people are like children. When you give a child a rare and precious gift they are unaware to comprehend it. I believe now that giving the Iraqis freedom was like giving a 10 year old a diamond stone. The child is unable to see the rarity and preciousness of it. All he notices is that it's not shiny and it doesn't look particularly attractive. He is unable to see the "diamond" in the rough. And he wants to know why his parents can't buy him the cheap plastic toy.
# posted by : 6/8/04 10:11 PM
: 6/8/04 10:11 PM You say the following: "I happen to believe that Al Qaeda was founded, recruited, assisted and financed by other American administrations through other short-sighted policies." So you're telling me that the US "founded" Al Qaeda and not Osama Bin Ladin. So Osama is lying when he says that he founded Al Qaeda??? Where exactly are you getting this information??? Or, did you mean that because we gave the Afghani people weapons for FIGHT the USSR invasion that this means we "founded" Al Qaeda?? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?? Think about it....That America "founded" and ideology that wants America's death. That we are suicidal??
# posted by : 6/8/04 10:17 PM
: 6/8/04 10:17 PM It sound like a very dedicated political operative of either the John F'n Kerry campaign or the national Democrat party has pulled a very elaborate election-year stunt. Kudos! You almost fooled me, with all of your blogs. But you make it quite clear with this blog that the sole focus of your petty hatred is President George W. Bush, and you want us to replace him with the dishonest piece of doggy excrement that goes by the name of John "Forbes" (yes, he changed his name so his initials would be "JFK") Kerry...the epitome of a say-anything-to-get-elected limousine liberal.
Thanks, but no thanks. Everyone I know is going to vote to re-elect President George W. Bush this fall. We won't be influenced by political operatives. In the remote case that you are really a simple anti-Bush Iraqi (ungrateful bastard!), please know that we don't vote for our President based upon the hate of a distant loser who conveniently ignores the fact that he has freedom he wouldn't have dreamed of when a Democrat was President of the United States of America.
# posted by : 7/8/04 8:29 AM
: 7/8/04 8:29 AM I have heard these expressions from other bloggers. From your point-of-view, you are quite correct - I can't deny much of it. There isn't a reason for you to think otherwise. I'd probably say the same if I were you.
However :) I do believe in the saying "you can't see the forest through the tress". Meaning, you can see the chaos around you but this *stops* you from seeing the bigger picture.
Here's some thoughts:
- Post 9/11, we MUST be concerned by WHO ELSE COULD commit such crimes? Saddam was given EVERY chance, he refused, EVERYBODY agreed he must have the WMDs. How could we NOT take him out? It was not about who exactly commited 9/11, his history was unique. That's why it was declared a "war on terror" - not the "Taliban" or OBL alone. Post 9/11 there was no choice. If you disagree then I say you don't understand the lessons of 9/11.
- You assume much. How "easy" it should be for a foreign country to come in and *magically* run everything perfectly. To "wave a magic wand" and have peace. When we don't speak your language. When we don't know and couldn't know who the bad/good guys were. When elements continued to fight us and we couldn't differentiate. When foreign combatants invade also. When people don't understand this.
- We have made "mistakes". Yes, but each (done on one's current knowledge), throughout US history, were caused in an attempt to solve an *immediate* problem (USSR, Iraq/Iran, WMDs, Kuwiat, etc....). I ask, would there EVER have been a "perfect" strategy? One with no loss of innocent life? One with no future consequences? Remember there are many world forces involved in why Iraq is currently the way it is, not just the US. They're just as responsible, INCLUDING Iraqis. We're ALL to blame.
We're ridiculed if we DON'T do something when we have the power to and "should". If we do, we're just the "great Satan". Democracy NEVER comes easily, that history has proven. I understand helicopter gunships make it difficult these days to revolt, now you have your chance. We have paid in many lives as well thank you.
In ten years you WILL NOT agree with yourself on certain things. On what points exactly? You'll have to tell us then :)
You have every right to be frustrated and angry. I suppose only time will heal things, I just believe you're on the right path and this was, ultimately, done as well as could it could be - *regardless* of who was in charge. If one "mistake" wasn't made, a different one would be.
Peace.
# posted by : 7/8/04 8:38 AM
: 7/8/04 8:38 AM ...sorry, that is "see the forest through the TREES" (not tress).
Pete
# posted by : 7/8/04 8:40 AM
: 7/8/04 8:40 AM Your complaints can be summed up as - war is hell. This is true. But wars all come to an end. And whoever survives, is able to bring their children up in a wonderful country. The once-off cost for freedom is what your generation has to pay, to make a better life for your children. This is what most people want. A better life for their children.
You will try to tell your children how during the war you had no electricity etc etc, and your children, who have never had anything other than 24*7 electricity, will call you a whinger, "what's so bad about that?". They will not have the concept of how difficult that is for you.
And you will smile. Assuming you are one of the lucky 99.9% of Iraqis who survive this war, anyway.
mpeachw:
Ok Michael Moore. Your rhetoric is short sighted. Your answer is NEVER to go to war, somebody always dies. OMG! I wish somebody had told me that ;)
What about FUTURE consequences of NOT going to war? This doesn't seem to enter your equation. The soldiers currently in Iraq mostly signed up KNOWING they'd go to Iraq and MANY are going back because the KNOW they're doing a good thing.
No, "we can't all just get along" when there are people that want to dominate the WHOLE WORLD with their interpretation of Sharia law. Become Muslim or die, or at the very least pay the "jizya" tax and become a second class human being. Not for me. They don't hate us because we pissed them off, they hate us because our way of life offends them. Our Christian heritage offends them. Our freedoms offend them. They love death more than life (from their own mouth!). I have a family to defend, if you're not willing to do it get out of my way. You can continue to be naive and wish for a "perfect world" that will never be accomplished by your means. Remember, you're basically proposing what Clinton did for eight years - all that it won us was 9/11. You want to got back to those events happening all the time? If not, you must take the fight to them. Otherwise you're being a pussy, a coward who'll let your enemies walk all over you (Spain). Times AREN'T easy, but you have a defeatist attitude.
It sounds like your more worried about pissing these people off than recognizing them for what they are, uncompromising walking death.
I don't think my previous post tried to do anything but provoke thought. I wasn't trying to be hostile before, I am now. Sounds like you're spewing leftist hate.
Should we have allowed Hitler to take over in order to "save lives" or not "piss them off" ? It must be nice living comfortably after OTHERS gave their lives for YOUR freedom. You just don't want this disturbed - I have many names for this. BTW...I'm only getting started.
Winston Churchill - "If you're not a liberal before you're 30 you don't have a heart, if you're not a conservative after 30 you don't have a brain" (close enough)
Pete
# posted by : 7/8/04 10:43 PM
: 7/8/04 10:43 PM Hello Abu Khaleel,
This election between Bush and Kerry is very,very very bitter and you are seeing that. You would think that Americans would start shooting each other, by the talk! Iraqi war is all Bush has to show for 4 years (economy bad, foreign relations bad, 911 intelligence failure, etc.) so his failure there, the only 'good' thing he has done, is the issue of the election.
Also, remember that Americans are not polite or respectful people no matter how much they want to 'help' and much of it is quite sincere. Therefore they do not realize that even gifts will not be accepted if offered rudely.
There are American Saddamists-- we call 'flag-waving super-patriots'--the whole world knows about them and detests them (these insects are infesting a number of Iraqi blogs). Therefore to their paranoid minds, if Iraqis complain it is because they are just trying to hurt Bush's reelection. Yes, there is only Bush, love him or hate him!
In their war with the Democrats they will go anywhere and do anything to ambush their ideological opponents.
When Iraqis start their political system, please don't adopt the two-party US model, European type parties are much more civilized.
# posted by : 9/8/04 1:16 AM
: 9/8/04 1:16 AM To anonymous:
Thank you for showing your ignorance of U.S. culture. You probably also rant about "the U.S. doesn't understand the Arab world" yet you proclaim to understand us so well and have it completely backward.
I'm hardly a 'super-patriot', I became a naturalized U.S. citizen as an adult. The fact is that you believe all of the lies about the U.S. without question, we couldn't offer anything without it being 'rudely offered'. Also, get your facts straight. The unemployment rate is 5.5%, that's historically fine. GWB made decisions based on information that everybody had, the intelligence may have been faulty but that doesn't make the decision making faulty also. Not everything is as bad as you assert, be realistic.
John Kerry is like a fart in the wind as far as decision making is concerned. I would have been open to a more realistic Democratic candidate but he is a sad excuse for one. I think he'd be a disaster, that is why I want GWB to win.
I care about all people who wish to improve their own lives. The U.S. gives more assistance and monetary support than all other countries combined. We care deeply, especially about basic freedoms. Sorry, but the ME countries just doesn't provide them. Now some became a threat post 9/11. GWB declared war on the entire pathetic ME world of oppression, hate and aggressive dictatorships. Spin it any way you wish.
mpeachw:
I don't see anybody shooting here do you? Regardless of differences in opinion, as Americans, we debate peacefully. Peace and prosperity to you...
# posted by : 9/8/04 6:30 AM
: 9/8/04 6:30 AM ...
mpeachw: also, if you're a fighter in the face of death - then join us supporting in the larger 'real war', the one against all of the types of forces that would LOVE to commit another 9/11 on us. Again, this is why Saddam had to go - he would have, and I won't ever believe that he wasn't encouraging/helping/assisting/planning/financing operations in many parts of the world. It was his nature.
...I WANT pitbulls on my side :)
Pete
# posted by : 9/8/04 6:36 AM
: 9/8/04 6:36 AM Abu Khaleel:
It isn't that we think Iraqis have done nothing. It is that, at some point, you must accept that Iraq/Iraqis have some responsibility for events past, current and future. Instead of just passing-the-blame off to the U.S. for all the problems that exist, that is just too easy and short sighted.
As I stated above, you have every reason for anger and frustration. However, wild conspiracy theories pointed always and entirely at the U.S. is obviously done with prejudice. I just bet that things weren't and aren't as easy as you assume.
If you think you could do a better job then I suggest you run for a public office and make a difference. Although I doubt we'd get a 'thank you' for you having the opportunity to do so...
Regards,
Pete
# posted by : 9/8/04 6:48 AM
: 9/8/04 6:48 AM Hello Pete,
I never heard of you when I mentioned American Saddamists, but you prove my point brilliantly...
"John Kerry is like a fart ...[that is] why I want GWB to win"
So the bottom line is Bush must win. Do you care about Iraqis at all? Face it, you're a waste of [cyber]space.
# posted by : 10/8/04 6:25 AM
: 10/8/04 6:25 AM ...all I see here is Bush bashing. Typical, ignorant, uneducated, slanderous, Kerry-blind Bush bashing.
Do you guys do anything but bash Bush? Your rhetoric is like a script that you've all been given. You don't ever provide honest, objective or fair opinions. You never listen to anything that I've said (would've been open to a different Dem candidate, etc.).
Do I care about Iraqi's? wow. I suppose you do because you're against the war, anybody for the war must hate Iraqi's right? I can't imagine a more pathetic and shallow opinion.
I have every reason to believe JK isn't fit to be President. He's running purely on the fact that he was in Vietnam, that's all. That's really sad. You lot don't see your own hypocracy, for you, "the bottom line is Kerry must win". Duh? You're not voting out of blind hate? You are and it is obvious.
I laugh at your attempt to get rid of me :) ...fuels the fire. I feel sorry for you really, all you can do is attack somebody who has a different opinion than yours. What happened to "healthy dialog", "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression" - or do these things only apply if I'm a liberal? You apparently need to "shut me up" - how un-American.
# posted by : 10/8/04 7:21 PM
: 10/8/04 7:21 PM ...
mpeachw:
Are you saying:
- OBL had nothing to do with 9/11?
- OBL doesn't want to attack the U.S.?
- Saddam was a 'nice guy' who should have been left alone?
- Saddam had nothing to do with global terrorism and wasn't exterminating his own people?
- Saddam wasn't a threat to its neighbors?
- Saddam never had WMDs?
- Saddam accounted for his stockpiles acceptably?
- Although Saddam had USED WMDs and had GONE TO WAR with two of its neighbors he was no different than NK?
- Saddam wasn't a threat at all, to anyone?
- Saddam wasn't an impediment to freedom in the region and didn't teach hate toward the U.S. that leads to people doing things LIKE 9/11?
- Saddam had NO links to terrorism or Al-Qaeda?
- Everything should be 'rosey' just 1 1/2 years after eliminating Saddam's regime?
How naive. No, I don't feel safe. There are still many terrorists, already radicalized during the Clinton years, that want you AND me dead. Sometimes things get worse before they get better. If you had a hornets nest on one side of your house would you just avoid that side out of fear of 'sturring them up'? No, you'd realize that it's a growing problem that must be dealt with before the inevitable happens.
Iraqi's are responsible for looting, so-called 'resistance' killings, lack of rebuilding and, consequently, employment.
Pete
# posted by : 10/8/04 7:46 PM
: 10/8/04 7:46 PM Reading the "iraqi letter to America" I believe we should have just left Saddam there with his rape rooms, starving the Iraqis and killing his people. We are spending billions and all this guy can do is blame Bush??
What a waste...
# posted by : 10/8/04 9:49 PM
: 10/8/04 9:49 PM To the many ignorant posters:
Read the 9/11 report and you'll find that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 BUT HE WAS HOSTING AL QAEDA in IRAQ. In other words he had numerous terrorist contacts.
Now stay with me here because many of you seem really dense. You see the fear was that Saddam would give over a dirty bomb to his new friends Al Qaeda. Get it?
He had already proven himself to be a crazy dictator unlike the generic run of the mill dictators we are usually forced to deal with. For instance, he INVADED KUWAIT. The world wasn't very happy about that. That's right boys and girls. Even the UN and FRANCE and RUSSIA. After 9/11 the US realized that they could no longer afford to PACIFY Saddam. Now do you idiots get it???
# posted by : 10/8/04 9:55 PM
: 10/8/04 9:55 PM To the previous poster. Iraqis are like little children. First Saddam took care of them. Now the US.
Mark my words. They will be sitting on the sidelines wondering why the US isn't giving them a new economy, creating jobs and making sure they are safe. Let me tell you. They dont' see us as liberating them and giving THEM back their country. Now that they have democracy they don't have a clue as to what a great gift that means or what to do with it.
However, I assure you, they certainly know how to complain and Monday Morning Quarterbacking as to what SHOULDA, COULDA been done.
The bottom line is we had to do it for World and US safety but don't expect any sort of thank you from the Iraqis anytime soon.
Thanks
# posted by : 10/8/04 10:00 PM
: 10/8/04 10:00 PM I agree that we should have just done nothing. We should have left the Taliban alone in Afghanistan and not attacked Iraq. I guess we were scared after 9/11 that Saddam could work with Al Qaeda and hit us even worse than 9/11. Having said that....
I just want to ask those of you who knew that the war in Afghanistan and Iraq was wrong what exactly should we have done after Afghanistan. Other than getting Bin Ladin since he is a figurehead and another would just crop up in his place anyway. Let me know.
Thanks
# posted by : 11/8/04 10:43 PM
: 11/8/04 10:43 PM mpeachw:
I'll take the lack of answers to my questions as a lack of ability to answer them fairly.
None of you ever do anything but 'armchair-quarterback' everything in hindsight. You can't provide any solid alternative AT THE TIME a decision has to be made. You don't understand the consequences of INACTION. You don't understand the 'war on terror', which was ALWAYS greater than just the Taliban and Afghanistan - it was recognition of the greater problem. Your solution is to 'not piss people off', 9/11 DID happen you know, WE were victims of hate - and it came with a Quran attached to it (even if only by a minorities extreme opinion). Well, if you're a Pitbull then I'm Godzilla.
You don't understand how delicate the situation is with Pakistan and we couldn't wait until OBL is caught before we continued with business in the 'war on terror'. Glad you're not in charge.
So you think we're in a police state eh? oh really? When was the last time you lived in a police state? This is the utlimate example of taking your freedom for granted, you complain about things here but don't have a clue what living in a REAL police state is like. Let me guess, you're a pissed off 20-something (years old). You don't really believe they want to attack us, not because we now don't have freedom but, because we pissed them off? ...you're bordering on nut-job here.
The 'foreign policy' they claim as a cause is about Israel and our support for it, which spans MANY administrations including your beloved Bill C. They hate us because we're not Muslim, we're primarily Christian, we're democratic and have music & TV. That's not going to change anytime soon, so wake up and smell the ricin.
Pete
# posted by : 12/8/04 6:05 AM
: 12/8/04 6:05 AM To the poster above:
Thanks for listing everything you think we shouldn't have done.
Now, please tell me what we SHOULD have done. we are going to play the woulda shoulda game.
Now you are the President of the US. You're country has just been hit with 9/11. You know that Saddam (who has invaded Kuwait even though most of the world did not think he was crazy enough to do it) and has gassed the kurds has had numerous CONTACTS with Al Qaeda. Now you know Saddam MAY not have anything to do with 9/11 but he certainly has something to do with 9/11. What do YOU do?
Do you sit around and just pray that we don't get hit with another 9/11. Please let me know YOUR plan for the US.
Also,If your grand plan is to get Osama. Even if we did....would that mean it was OVER??? Or would another rise to take his place?
As for Afghanistan, should we have left Al Qaeda in power of Afghanistan and a place to train and plot?
I eagerly away your REPLIES to ALL my Questions.
Thanks
# posted by : 12/8/04 8:28 PM
: 12/8/04 8:28 PM I just read the letter to America and basically it should be called "letters" to America. I believe the blogger is saying "Fuck you". After reading this I am now wondering why we spent BILLIONS of the US money to liberate and support these people?? Maybe we should have taken our chances with getting blown up again by Al Qaeda. They actually have the nerve to believe that their country was BETTER with Saddam and the rape rooms, murders. If they are that stupid they DESERVE a dictator like saddam. Yes, maybe that is harsh but c'mom. Here we are spending BILLIONS...yes, BILLIONS and we have shed our childrens' BLOOD and this guy is bitching and moaning that everything isn't perfect by now???? Are you kidding me???
# posted by : 12/8/04 8:36 PM
: 12/8/04 8:36 PM mpeachw:
you still haven't answered my questions. I don't assume anything, you come across loud and clear - one day you'll realize there are circumstances that only war can resolve: WWI/II, Korea, Bosnia, Kuwait, Afghanistan AND Iraq. It takes both sides to want peace, if the other side doesn't then you either fight or die. Currently, the 'other side' is the radical religious hate that has been fomenting for decades. You probably think that is all our fault, they're just 'nice guys'. What will you say when these idiots kill thousands next time?
It is your logic that is flawed because you only offer criticism, not practical solutions - just like John Kerry!
Pete
# posted by : 13/8/04 8:41 AM
: 13/8/04 8:41 AM mpeachw:
you are feeding your sickness by accepting/reciting every bit of drivel you're fed.
"My solution to 911 is to go after the one responsible."
This is proof positive that you and the lefties DON'T GET IT. You couldn't have said it better. This is about WHO ELSE could/would-love-to do a similar atrocity - otherwise we'd have called it the "War On OBL". You need to see the bigger picture. Still, this ISN'T an answer to my questions - you don't have answers.
"He lied...blah blah, fill in the blanks here ____"
It is now very clear, proven by multiple reports (that you conveniently ignore), that there was no 'lie'. To continue to state this makes you a liar yourself. It also shows that you're completely incapable of reading and researching FACTS and come to some reasonable, balanced, conclusions. You believe every leftist lie your told. You show yourself to be nothing but an extremist leftie with no logic other than hate.
You need to read opinions other than those from liberal idiots. I doubt you can stand reading www.chronwatch.com can you? ...if you don't ever read such material you can hardly claim to have a balanced point of view. We ALL KNOW about the leftist opinion, the media rams it down our throats.
Read the U.N. pre-war report on the state of Iraq's WMDs. Then we can have reasonable discussion, I'm done with you until then.
# posted by : 13/8/04 8:12 PM
: 13/8/04 8:12 PM IM TIERD OF YOU STUPID FUCKING LIBERIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# posted by : 28/4/05 4:32 AM
: 28/4/05 4:32 AM << Home
